Black Gospel Archive

Baylor’s Black Gospel Archive collects, preserves and promotes Black Gospel music. Many pieces, once in danger of being lost forever, have been saved through that work. This year, the Black Gospel Archive will be expanding thanks to a meaningful grant that will showcase the music in new ways. Stephen Newby, The Lev H. Prichard III Endowed Chair in the Study of Black Worship, and Darryl Stuhr, Director of Digitization and Digital Collection Preservation Services within University Libraries, take listeners inside those efforts.
Transcript
Derek Smith:
Hello and welcome to Baylor Connections, a conversation series with the people shaping our future. Each week, we go in depth with Baylor leaders, professors, and more discussing important topics in higher education, research, and student life. I'm Derek Smith. And today, we are discussing Baylor's Black Gospel Archive. The Black Gospel Archive is a program within Baylor Libraries housing numerous efforts to collect, preserve, and promote Black gospel music. Many pieces over the years, once in danger of being lost forever, have been preserved within the archive through the initiative within it, the Black Gospel Preservation Program. Earlier this year, the Black Gospel Archive was awarded a nearly $2.5 million grant from Lilly Endowment Inc. to support a major expansion.
With us today are Stephen Newby and Darryl Stuhr. Dr. Newby serves as the Lev H. Prichard III Endowed Chair in the study of Black worship in the Baylor School of Music. He's a professor of music and ambassador for the Black Gospel Music Preservation Program. Darryl Stuhr serves as Director of Digitization and Digital Collection Preservation Services within university libraries. Independently and collectively, they do a lot of great work for Baylor and for the archive, and they're with us today on the program. Stephen, Darryl, thanks so much for joining us today.
Stephen Newby:
Boy, it's great to be here. Thank you so much.
Darryl Stuhr:
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Derek Smith:
It's wonderful to have you both here, and it's an exciting time. And I want to ask, start off with a broad question that we can dive into over our next 20 minutes or so together, and Darryl, I'll start with you, when people ask, "So how are things going for Baylor's Black gospel music efforts these days?" It had some different names over the years.
Darryl Stuhr:
Sure.
Derek Smith:
But just overall, what's that been looking like lately?
Darryl Stuhr:
Well, lately, we can say that it's going better than ever. Things have really changed in the last 18 months. It's really started with bringing on Dr. Newby here. We've been-
Stephen Newby:
Boy, he's so kind.
Darryl Stuhr:
We've been basically in a rinse-and-repeat mode. We get materials in, many are donated, some are loaned to us, but we're in a digitization mode where we're digitizing, placing the items online. Items that are donated to us have been stored before the actual Black Gospel Archive was constructed. They were actually stored in the back corner of a library. So, back in 2021, when we opened up the Black Gospel Archive, that started to move things along, then Dr. Newby came on, and he really injected a fresh energy into the work that we were doing, the day-to-day digitization work that we were doing. After he started, started to look for grants and found an opportunity with the Lilly grant, and we applied for the Lilly exploratory grant, and that gave us some money, January 2024. And so we were able to set up sessions with consultants. Folks on the grant team were able to travel to places across the country and see where we wanted to take this program over the next 5, 10, or 15 years.
We're lucky to have Dr. Newby for five years, but he really looks towards the future. So, he is working to set up his position as being the first one in the Prichard chair as something that will work for the next 2, 3, 4 people that will fill this position down the line. And so, work on the exploratory grant was so successful that, after meeting with the Lilly folks via Teams, we were able to apply for the implementation grant, and we received it in November. Money kicked in in January. So, we're already in the period of the $2.4 million implementation grant.
Stephen Newby:
Right. And we've already created a symposium and concert that took place last month, featuring Kevin Bond and his band, as well as the Reverend Dr. Dwight Andrews, who is professor of African American studies and music theory at Emory University. So we've been on the move. We've been just pushing the envelope in a really, really cool way. What is amazing is that we have an amazing team, all the people that are working side-by-side doing the daily grind, but also stepping up when we are responding to what the grant is calling us to do, religion in the public square and making sure that this music, and this sound, and this sound doctrine is sounding the alarm to take note that these are great stories, great music regarding all of our humanity flourishing, and that's what we get to do together.
Derek Smith:
It's incredible work, for sure. And as we're talking, I'm thinking back over the years, Bob Darden, who retired after a great service to Baylor over the decades. This started as a gleam in his eye, and we saw it grow from a gleam in the eye to a room in the library-
Darryl Stuhr:
Right.
Derek Smith:
... to a highly regarded operation to the Smithsonian in Washington-
Darryl Stuhr:
Right.
Derek Smith:
... D.C. And so it grew so many ways that we've been able to see here at Baylor, and some of those we discussed with him and others on this program, it's in a bit of a new phase, it sounds like, in some exciting ways. And you're both talking about that, but I'd like to dive in even a little bit more with that. The grant from Lilly, it seems like it's not just the cause of what you're doing, but it's fueling what you're doing. Is that a fair way to say it?
Stephen Newby:
Right, yes, fueling and it's literally funding of what we're doing. Darryl, do you want to talk about the space?
Darryl Stuhr:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, in our implementation grant, we were able to put down what we wanted to do to expand. So, there are multiple components to this, one is a physical expansion, and the other is just spreading the word, which is why Dr. Newby had come up with concerts and symposia that I'll let him talk about. But as far as growing the space, we're currently working in a 600-square foot space, like I mentioned before, opened up in 2021, called the Black Gospel Archive & Listening Center. This expansion is going to add 1,200-square foot-
Derek Smith:
Wow.
Darryl Stuhr:
... to that space. We will increase our holding storage from about 30,000 discs to about 65,000 discs with a hope that, one day, we actually have 100,000 discs in the space. So, this will also give us space to have a Hammond B-3 organ. It will increase our classroom capability. The Black Gospel Archive has been hosting classes in there ever since we opened in 2021, and noticed that we need more space, we need more classroom technology. So, we will easily be able to hold 30 students in the space with a flat panel, a very nice sound system so they can listen to the Black gospel music through the sound system. And so, yeah, and we'll be able to hold events there, but I'll let you talk about the-
Stephen Newby:
Exactly.
Darryl Stuhr:
Yeah. I'll let talk about the concert and symposia.
Stephen Newby:
Well, Baylor University is an institution of higher learning, and we're an R1 institution and we're Christian. So, we're taking what we have and we're sharing it with the world, Pro Mundo, as part of Baylor's strategic initiative. Baylor Pro Texana. Now, Baylor for the world. So we're taking this out. We're going to different spaces. We're going to Detroit, Michigan and having a concert and symposium. We're going to go to Chicago, which is considered the home of gospel music as we know it with Thomas Dorsey, and we're going to have a symposium and work with various institutions there. Particularly the one in Detroit, which is the next one coming up in fall of 2026, we're working with Wayne State University and we're working with the Detroit Institute of Arts. We're bringing together scholars. We're going to have roundtable discussions on the legacy of gospel music in Detroit and beyond. We're going to do that in that space.
We're going to show up there, collaborate with these other institutions. We're going to bring our [inaudible 00:09:18]. We're going to bring our scholarship. We're going to bring some of the things that we would like to share and reflect on. For example, the history of the Hammond B-3 organ, that's one thing I think we're really going to highlight when we get to Detroit, and we're going to talk about that and nurture that because we value that. That has a great story in itself, but these are the types of things we're going to look at when we get into the symposium context, when we're going to share in the concerts. We're going to have interviews and testimonies from elders in the community there that have been around this music historically, most of their lives. And we're going to document, bring this stuff back to Baylor, transcribe it, write about it, and do better, deeper dives with this.
Derek Smith:
As you described this, there's the concert. You mentioned the symposiums. I'm curious, how much of this is getting the word out to other scholars? I know, for example, tell me if this is a good analogy, Browning scholars around the world have come to learn over the decades that the Armstrong Browning Library is a cornerstone place to study those works. Is that what we're building here in the Black Gospel Archive?
Stephen Newby:
Absolutely, yes.
Derek Smith:
Is there a need to get that word out?
Darryl Stuhr:
Definitely, yes.
Stephen Newby:
Absolutely. And our artists and residence, Kevin Bond, who's going to be with us for four years, is part of the idea of getting the word out. Kevin Bond, he was a record producer. He was still producing, but he worked with Kirk Franklin, Edwin Hawkins, Walter Hawkins, Yolanda Adams, and the list goes on and on, and he is another ambassador here for the Black Gospel Archives, the BGA. So, this is really about networking. I think what you're seeing, the first phase with Robert Darden, as Jesus would say... The net was on this side, but Jesus is saying, "Cast your net on the other side of the boat." So I think on this phase, we are actually casting the net on the other side and working this network beyond the golden age of gospel music. And these people are alive and we're bringing them in. We want to continue to develop the archives in a way where we're asking them to make physical contributions of their music and artifacts for here at Baylor.
Derek Smith:
This is Baylor Connections. We are visiting with Dr. Stephen Newby, the Lev H. Prichard III Endowed Chair in the study of Black worship at Baylor, and Darryl Stuhr. Darryl serves as Director of Digitization and Digital Collection of Preservation Services within university libraries. And Darryl, this is such a big part of what university libraries does. I know a lot of us who have been students, we go to the library, we think of studying and we think of-
Darryl Stuhr:
Right.
Derek Smith:
... finding books or documents online, but the work you all do is so multifaceted. Tell us a little bit more. We talk about that idea of this being a repository, that we want scholars from all over-
Darryl Stuhr:
Right.
Derek Smith:
... the world to come and partake in. Tell us a little bit about how these efforts fit within that broader university libraries umbrella and what it means to Baylor.
Darryl Stuhr:
Sure, and it did really start off as just a digitization project. But now that we have the Black Gospel Archive and we are actively acquiring gospel materials to add to the archive, it really is a collection now within the libraries. And so we're making a strong effort at this point with some good university support, great support from our dean, Dean Archer, to have funds so that we can go out and buy some of the rarest gospel materials. Before, we were in more of a passive mode, waiting for people to donate or loan materials to us, and that's been greatly successful. We've had Mr. Bob Marovich, out of Chicago, share his entire collection with us, and we've been digitizing that collection for years, and we will actually finish up this summer, and it is a-
Stephen Newby:
Wow.
Darryl Stuhr:
... rich collection. Also, Mr. Opal Nations, out of Oakland, California, has donated his complete collection. We just finished inventory on it, and we're beginning to digitize that now. And so, on top of those, we are looking and aggressively bidding on some of these discs. Some of them that are so unique, can run from $400 to $1,000 for a single disc, but it's important that we acquire it. Because if a collector acquires it, it'll go in his collection and it'll sit on his shelf, and I'm sure he'll get great enjoyment out of that. If we acquire it, we will digitize it. We will digitally preserve it, and we will make it available to the researchers, to the musicians, to the scholars around the world. So it's very important the work that we're doing right now, and that is that current phase, that is that casting the net now on the other side. It's really giving us an opportunity to work this program differently.
Stephen Newby:
And I would add, Darryl. Darryl's work is huge. So, he's not only director of the digitization, but he's also the director of the Black Gospel Archives. This thing is evolving, and expanding, and, once again, casting the net on the other side. So part of the grant is to help us expand our staff, because there's a lot of administrative work, a lot of networking, a lot of getting on the phone, a lot of emails, a lot of building relationships. And the idea of doing this work, we are finding that, to sit in our humanness and to realize that this is not just work of diversity, it's work of unifying our humanity.
You see, as an African American male coming into this space, people would say, "Oh, oh, what's going on there? Baylor is doing this. How come it isn't an HB, historic Black?" Well, God didn't allow that yet, but what God has allowed now, what God is doing now, you have to pay attention to the cues, to clues, and the codes. And so Baylor is special. Baylor has a unique call. The libraries and the museums have a unique calling. And Darryl and his team, and I, we all have a unique calling to steward this opportunity in a time where there's so many distractions that we are creating a possibility for attractions. To what? I'm glad you asked the question, to the gospel, to the good news, and to this good music, and to this great work. And so I just want to give a shout-out to Darryl, Sir, your direction and your-
Darryl Stuhr:
Thank you.
Stephen Newby:
... team, for great kudos for this work that you're doing. It brings joy to the university.
Derek Smith:
As people are listening, if they would like to learn more, I imagine some people already have dug into this music a little bit within the archive, but you mentioned the listening room, there's online archives. Obviously, this is going to expand. This grant is going to change the physical space.
Stephen Newby:
Oh, yeah.
Derek Smith:
But if people were to happen to walk over by Moody Library right now, what would they find if they searched out the archive?
Stephen Newby:
Well, I would say, come in with an imagination, go pull on an LP, then go into the listening booth, put that LP on and listen to it. And if you happen to be a musician who is a keyboardist, then move over to your left side and start playing along with the music. It's so invitational. It stirs the curiosity. That's what's so wonderful about the space, you will find a world of wonders in sound doctrine with this story of the African American heritage and more. I think that's what you're going to find. Darryl, you got another angle, too, I'm sure.
Darryl Stuhr:
Yeah. Well, that was beautifully said. What I can add to that is that this archive is unique, and this idea really came from our dean, Dean Archer. He wanted the archive to be designed in a way where visitors can come in and pull the archival materials right off the shelf and, just like Dr. Newby mentioned, play the LP, although those materials have already been digitized and digitally preserved. And placing that vinyl on the turntable and listening to it directly from the vinyl is a different experience. And the listening center... I'm sorry, the listening booth that we have in there gives you a really beautiful private experience with that music. And you can sit there and be with that music. And I'll also add that, in the archive right now, we've got about 8,000 discs-
Derek Smith:
Wow.
Darryl Stuhr:
... in there, so plenty to choose from.
Derek Smith:
There really is something about still popping a record on the player, right?
Darryl Stuhr:
Oh, yeah.
Derek Smith:
The vinyl LP.
Stephen Newby:
Yeah.
Darryl Stuhr:
Oh, yes.
Derek Smith:
The needle hits.
Darryl Stuhr:
Yep.
Stephen Newby:
Yeah. And putting that needle in the groove, literally, that's where the groove came from. "The idea of groove, what is it?" "Well, it came from the LP." And then you've got opportunity to open up that album jacket and read liner notes and imagine the musicians that lived and served in community to make this music. It is an experience. It will take you back. I was in there yesterday and I pulled the Aretha Franklin album.
Darryl Stuhr:
I saw that.
Stephen Newby:
And once again, I just go back in the '70s when I was a child, and my mother would play that music all the time. And listening to that Aretha Franklin and the James Cleveland album coming out of that West Coast, and listening to that sound and the memories, and just sitting and basking in that sound, it takes you back, and it allows you to appreciate and sit in the joy of both the lament and the praise that we hear in the music.
Derek Smith:
Well, as we visit with Darryl Stuhr and Stephen Newby, our time is really flying. We're heading into the final couple of minutes here. And as we close, I want to ask you both, you've painted a picture of what's going on and what's yet to come, but just to summarize here, Darryl, I'll start with you, when you envision what's ahead for the Black Gospel Archive the next few years, what are you most excited about?
Darryl Stuhr:
Ooh, quite a few things. First, the expansion of the physical space and the ability to hold classes comfortably in the space, the ability to host speakers in the space will be great. Additionally, the networking that Dr. Newby had mentioned is going to be absolutely critical for what we can do over the next 5 to 10 years. The contacts that Dr. Newby and Kevin Bond have will greatly expand the visibility of this project. And so I'm excited about the physical expansion. I'm excited about the expansion of the network possibilities. And then I'll add one other thing. We received the intellectual property rights for the Definitive Gospel discography. And so we are now working to structure that, and we're working with a vendor right now, a vendor developer, that will allow us to put this discography online. This had always been in print and published. So, that's another aspect that I'm excited about, and it will be funded by the Lilly grant. So, yeah, I think that's what I'm looking forward to most.
Stephen Newby:
I would say ditto to all that. This music, this opportunity, this space, the community space, is a space of grace. It's invitational. It's ecumenical. It is ecclesiological. It will allow people from different denominations to come together in a very, very cool way. This music is also reaching people that we would never, ever imagine connecting. We had not talked about this in a while, Darryl, but remember you got that letter from that other guy?
Darryl Stuhr:
The recent letter?
Stephen Newby:
Yeah.
Darryl Stuhr:
Yeah.
Stephen Newby:
Yeah, just those who are incarcerated.
Darryl Stuhr:
Yeah.
Stephen Newby:
You just never know-
Derek Smith:
Wow.
Stephen Newby:
... who you're touching. And I think what this is doing is actually allowing Baylor, Christian university, R1 institution, is to go beyond its own walls, to go up to borders, and to build bridges where people haven't even thought those who are incarcerated, those who are oppressed, Pro Mundo. I think at the end of the day, the president and the provost of Baylor University, and the deans, they've charged and challenged all of us, "What does it mean to be Baylor Pro Mundo?" And I think the Black Gospel Archives is a bridge to that space.
Derek Smith:
Well, that's exciting. It's exciting to envision what's ahead, but it's excited to what's happening right now. We've seen it grow so much and are looking forward to that further growth through the Lilly grant. And you all deserve congratulations on that once again, and we're excited to see the ways that's going to fuel and fund the work that you all are doing. Well, Darryl, Stephen, really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for sharing, and thanks for the work you do.
Stephen Newby:
Yeah, thanks for having us here.
Darryl Stuhr:
Great. Thank you for having us. Yes, definitely.
Derek Smith:
Wonderful to have you both here, Darryl Stuhr, Director of Digitization and Digital Collection Preservation Services within university libraries, and Stephen Newby, the Lev H. Prichard III Endowed Chair in the study of Black worship, our guests today on Baylor Connections. I'm Derek Smith. Reminder, you can hear this in other programs online, baylor.edu/connections, and you can subscribe on iTunes. Thanks for joining us here on Baylor Connections.