Stephen Sloan

Transcript

Derek Smith:
Hello and welcome to Baylor Connections, a conversation series with the people shaping our future. Each week we go in depth with Baylor leaders, professors, and more discussing important topics in higher education, research, and student life. I'm Derek Smith, and today we are celebrating Baylor's birthday as the university celebrates its 180th birthday during the month of February. We're examining threads that connect the university in the modern day to its founding in 1845. From the university's distinct Christian mission to a history of innovation, Baylor has long served as a light in higher education, as its motto says, Pro Ecclesia, Pro Texana, Pro Mundo.
Visiting today with Stephen Sloan, professor of history and director of the Institute for Oral History at Baylor. A Baylor graduate, Dr. Sloan returned to his alma mater to teach in 2007. He serves as executive director of the National Oral History Association and was named a Big 12 Professor of the Year in 2024. Among the ways he shares history in the community, he hosts the Waco History podcast and helped develop the associated Waco History App. And he's with us today on the program, also celebrating a birthday in February along with Baylor University.

Stephen Sloan:
That's right. We're both getting older. Me and Baylor.

Derek Smith:
Both getting a little bit older.

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah.

Derek Smith:
Aging gracefully though, right?

Stephen Sloan:
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Derek Smith:
Absolutely. Baylor's got a few years on you as an institution.

Stephen Sloan:
I feel like I'm gaining on it, but yeah.

Derek Smith:
Yeah, sure. We all do. Right? Well, Stephen, it's good to have you with us today. And we just kind of look back at some elements of Baylor that have stayed the same even as they've changed, or ways that Baylor has influenced the state of Texas, higher education, the church, all of these things. So we're going to dive in. You'll get to get a little bit of your storytelling abilities that your students enjoy so much.

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I think an anniversary, a birthday is always an opportunity to look back and reflect. And Baylor has a lot to be proud of. It's got the ups, the downs, all of the things you can imagine in the history of an institution that's been so important statewide and nationally and globally now.

Derek Smith:
Well, shaped us where we are today. And let's start out with that statewide aspect because we're certainly proud of the fact Baylor is the oldest continually operating university in Texas. It was chartered when Texas was still a Republic. And it was founded with that idea, kind of a famous phrase at Baylor, being fully susceptible of development and engagement to meet the needs of all the ages to come. Curious, how do you see that vision having shaped the university over the last 180 years?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I think what it did is it offered a real flexibility because, I mean, how could they have known in 1845 what the needs were would've been a Baptist. Of course, they had a little narrower view of who to educate then than we do now. But I think they had a flexible vision that could grow with the university and I think we've seen that.

Derek Smith:
Well, we're going to talk about some of those, but broadly, what are some ways we've seen that in your mind lived out past to present?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I think you could think of the institution at 1845, there are some very unique things about it, the co-educational aspect of the institution and that women are studying with men, which is way earlier than we see in other places. It's a fairly provincial college at the time. It's fairly small in its vision of the world. That pro mundo part that you just said, we just added that. But I think it's added in our motto in what we're doing already in practice over the past 20 or 30 years and thinking of ourself as a global institution and how does Baylor impact the world and how is the world here in Waco studying at Baylor.

Derek Smith:
Well, you look, when it started out provincially, it was pioneering in a lot of ways in Texas, bringing new disciplines to the state over a lot of time. What are some ways that we've seen maybe, I don't know, is it fair to say a pioneering or an innovative spirit early on?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, there's a host of things that you could talk about. I mean, Baylor introduced new disciplines to Texas. First chemistry lab in 1851 at Baylor. Law lectures beginning in 1849. Of course, Baylor Law has been important from the beginning, and we could do this just on the law school on the way in which the history of Baylor Law has shaped the law in Texas and beyond. Sociology in 1910 and journalism in 1912, these new disciplines that were introduced to the state through Baylor University.

Derek Smith:
Now, maybe an obvious question, but I'll ask you, as you see Texas shaped by Baylor people in these new disciplines coming in, why was it important early on for one of those early influential universities to be a Christian university?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I think that of course is what's special about the mission to me. I think that's what makes whatever Baylor does and these different generations that we could talk about it's the undergird of what are you doing as an academic institution that has a Christian mission. That's what makes it unique. So just the idea of you're not only doing it to expand learning. You're not only doing it to expand understanding. You're doing it because you see a missional aspect. You see a higher purpose, a higher work in what you're doing. And so I think the efforts of Baylorites in service, the generosity and clarity we see from Baylor grads has made a huge difference in the state over the years.

Derek Smith:
Is there something to be said to when you talk about that mission? You look back at Baylor's early founding, as you said early on, there was a very much more narrow vision of who to educate, and that's a sad part of our history. But is there something to be said when you root yourself in something bigger like that, I don't know, something about that light can eventually, longer than it should have, but eventually work itself into some of those dark corners?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I mean, that's the hope, right? I mean, that's my ongoing hope is whatever challenges Baylor faces now and into the future, we lead with our mission, right? That's the framework we have to respond to whatever happens. And Baylor's failed in that respects at time, a southern institution that was a segregated institution for much of its history and the ways in which it fell short. And those are the things that... And that's why I think even an opportunity of a 180th, while we're really trying to understand Baylor's past, we can't celebrate all of it, but understanding it's extremely important to try to understand of where we've fallen short, of what we intended to be as a community, and I think it gives us opportunities now to be more humble in how we approach our present challenges.

Derek Smith:
Well, we're even seeing that growing on campus. There's going to be the Memorial to Enslaved Persons [inaudible 00:06:57].

Stephen Sloan:
And I'll say one of my favorite places on Baylor campus now, the history department, which I'm a member of, is in Tidwell Bible Building. And out in front of Tidwell now are two statues, one of Reverend Robert Gilbert and one of Barbara Walker, the first two Black graduates of Baylor. And one a history major, history is in that building, one a sociology major, sociology is in that building.
But what's happened Derek, that I could not have imagined is if you go over there around graduation, you see Black students taking pictures with those statues because you can think if you're a Black student, it's hard to imagine how they might view the campus. But why would you want to go take your picture with Judge Baylor? It has become a space where they feel represented on campus. They feel that Baylor has a history with people that they can identify with. It's really a special-

Derek Smith:
That's neat.

Stephen Sloan:
It's a really neat thing that's happened that I don't think was thought about when those statues were put up, but it's really become a really special place on campus.

Derek Smith:
That's great. I didn't know that. I'm glad to hear you paint that picture for us.

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah.

Derek Smith:
Visiting with Stephen Sloan here on Baylor Connections. So we were kind of talking about earlier here, the pro Texana portion of the model. Let's move to pro Ecclesia. I asked you why it was important for there to be a Christian university. Let's talk specifically about that Baptist affiliation. What has that meant in Baylor's growth as an institution and in shaping the state and the church around it?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I think it's kept Baylor, particularly for most of its history, accountable to something outside itself. A lot of private institutions don't necessarily have that. Public institutions do definitely. But it's kind of moored Baylor to a community outside of the institution that not only was invested in the direction of the university, but continued to support the university. And that support from Baptist is critical in the 19th century history of Baylor to get it going and to sustain it and make sure it happened.
And so that I think it's moored Baylor for most of its history. It has. We're going to talk pro Mundo in a minute, but Baptists have always been engaged in the world since the missions movement of the 19th century. And so it also gives Baylor those international connections early on and that international flavor early on. I was meeting with someone earlier this semester who was here at Baylor researching people in her community in the Philippines that were at Baylor in the nineteen-teens. But these Baptist connections that existed around the world that were sending students to Baylor. And also I think broadening coming back and teach and broadening Baylor students' perspective on the world.

Derek Smith:
Yeah, really there's a lot of different ways that we can look and find a confluence of Baylor people leading, whether it's in the church as we talked about earlier. It's interesting, obviously we have no shortage of great guests on this program, but we could almost do a whole season on at Truett programs that are designed to serve the church as it grows and as it serves this changing world.

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah. And there's new ones popping up all the time and it's really remarkable. And I love that kind of entrepreneurial way in which we're thinking about how we can serve the church and faith communities.

Derek Smith:
Yeah. And you mentioned that they're popping up. It's kind of rooted in what Truett has been since it was formed in Baylor, but the Kyle Lake Center for Effective Preaching, Program for the Future Church, Black Church Studies Program, just to name a few. It's interesting how, I don't know, complete it is when you look at that idea, kind of the body, if you will, that we talk about.
Visiting with Stephen Sloan here on Baylor Connections. Stephen serves as professor of history and director of the Institute for Oral History here at Baylor. So Pro Texana, Pro Ecclesia, Pro Mundo, the third part. And as you mentioned, it's not like this just came out of nowhere, right? Baylor's been building toward this for a while. You referenced this early on, but I want to ask you. One area that Baylor was ahead of the curve and more global serving was being co-educational. How did that shape Baylor early?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I think really early on. So 1845 Baylor's a co-educational institution, that they-

Derek Smith:
And that was rare.

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, extremely rare. And a colleague of mine in the history department, Dr. Andrea Turpin, has written on this, extremely unusual. Then there's the latter history with Mary Hardin-Baylor where the women's college goes off to Belton. But it was always something important early on. And I think, yeah, it's really a remarkable aspect of Baylor, how progressive Baylor is in the mid-19th century in that regard. We talk about limitations in other regards, but in that regard very progressive in the ways in which they're reviewing education.

Derek Smith:
You look obviously now we have women leading in a lot of different areas, as president and provost and really key roles at the university. This is a very broad question, but what are some of the ways you've seen that influence of having women here, women contribute to the life of the university and what it is now?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I think it's remarkable. I can think of the Baylor that I experienced in the 1980s as an undergraduate student and just really two or three I think women as professors that I encountered in the classroom. And just the vibrant. My colleagues, unbelievable researchers, teachers serving the community. And so I think that it's remarkable to see what's happened in the years as far as representation of just really amazing scholars that care about students that are now at Baylor.

Derek Smith:
Business. I want to ask you about medicine. Baylor's had a long reputation. When you look at some of the health science fields that goes way back. Here are some key figures. I think we talk about the idea of global impact, certainly medicine.

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, you can't hear the word Baylor without thinking of healthcare and just the way in which that's connected to Baylor's past, the founding of the Baylor College of Medicine, the founding of the Baylor College of Dentistry in the early part of the 20th century and what an impact that that has made. And that continues. I mean, our students that come in now not only are disproportionately pursuing work in a medical field, they're disproportionately having success in that pursuit.
I think some of the numbers I've seen on MCAT is 75% of Baylor students doing well in the MCAT compared to 40% at other institutions. So it's really, our record there is extremely impressive. And that association with Baylor with healthcare, even as things have changed in relation to the university's association with those areas, is a continued powerful contributor to the university's success.

Derek Smith:
It's always interesting to me, Stephen, you see a name on a building or on a medal or just in passing and then you kind of learn some of the stories behind them. Earle is a name we hear here at Baylor, Harriet Hallie Earle. And kind of tying it into the influence of women, someone, the first licensed female physician in McLennan County, and I mean, that's going back over a century ago now.

Stephen Sloan:
That's right. Top of her medical school class in 1907. And so yeah, continues to leave a legacy. Dr. Vivienne Malone-Mayes. Many are familiar with that story of Baylor. She has those tensions we were talking about earlier. Applied to study at Baylor in 1961, was rejected because of race. Baylor was not ready to integrate in 1961. And she comes back and ends up being a favored professor. The fifth mathematics PhD in the United States. Extremely accomplished professor who loved her students and made a big contribution to life at Baylor in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

Derek Smith:
Visiting with Stephen Sloan here on Baylor Connections. This month of February, Baylor is celebrating its 180th birthday, founded in 1845. And Stephen, as we head into the final few minutes, I think one final area to talk about Baylor is an R1 institution now. Certainly that's an area of global impact. And we're the first Protestant R1 institution out there. What does that mean? What does that mean to you when you think about just higher education landscape and what it means to have a Protestant institution in that area?

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, I think it means a lot. I think it's a space that we want to be in, right? And so for Baylor historically, there's this real moment at Baylor Sesquicentennial with the Council of 150 that's created, which is the first time I really see them using the term world-class. Just this idea of Baylor being effective in all areas, being excellent in all areas of its practice. There's a saying, and I won't quote who the saying comes from, but one of the oral histories we have on the institution's history, and it used to say, "We're world-class, just ask us."

Derek Smith:
Yeah.

Stephen Sloan:
But I think what we've seen in the last 30 years is Baylor said, "We want to be in these spaces. We want to have our faculty be the top researchers in the world, not just in our estimation, but we want them in those spaces. We want them engaged in those spaces. We want them creating knowledge in those spaces." And in fact, I think that idea of being a light, being a light to the world and that idea of doing good in all areas, I love the fact that my colleagues are in those spaces, that they're some top researchers in the areas in the world. And they're making a difference there and they're training up students to do likewise. And I think it's just a powerful thing. And so that celebration of becoming R1, which came early. I think I got a free mug out of it.

Derek Smith:
You did. Yes.

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it was really exciting. I think it was really saying something that said something about Baylor's future. I think it really set up Baylor well. I think it also, Baylor goes through cycles, it gives us an opportunity to reaffirm undergraduate education as well because we feel like that's extremely important. All of that covered in the mission and reaffirming that. And so I think we will continue to see these cycles of Baylor where we go back through those things that we think are important as an institution. And we make sure they're part of, they continue to be part of who we are.

Derek Smith:
Well, that's great. And as you talk about that idea, we hear that idea of the seat at the table. I know you've got colleagues who are chemistry fellows and physics fellows, and President Livingstone's on the American Council for Education. She's been board chair. I'll give you a shout out, executive director of the National Oral History Association. So you're one of those voices leading in your field, in your area, so we got to acknowledge that.

Stephen Sloan:
Yeah, and I love that. That is very rewarding for me professionally. But I love that there's a Baylor person in that space. I think it says something about us as an institution.

Derek Smith:
So Stephen, maybe we'll have to reconvene this again at the 200th anniversary of Baylor and we'll see even more name...

Stephen Sloan:
I plan on being here, Derek.

Derek Smith:
Well, good. Well, maybe we'll just spend the whole 23 minutes listing names of people who are doing big things amongst, yeah.

Stephen Sloan:
This needs to be a series. We'll do a series on the 200th. Yeah.

Derek Smith:
That sounds good. Well, Stephen, appreciate you being with us. A happy belated birthday to you as well as the institution.

Stephen Sloan:
Thank you. I appreciate it, Derek. Good being with you.

Derek Smith:
Good to be with you here today. Stephen Sloan, professor of history and director of the Institute for Oral History, our guest today on Baylor Connections. I'm Derek Smith. Reminder, you can hear this and other programs online, baylor.edu/connections, and you can subscribe on iTunes. Thanks for joining us here on Baylor Connections.