Laila Sanguras

Transcript

Derek Smith:
Hello, and welcome to Baylor Connections, a conversation series with the people shaping our future. Each week we go in depth with Baylor leaders, professors, and more, discussing important topics in higher education, research and student life. I'm Derek Smith, and today we are talking about a new school year with Laila Sanguras. Dr. Sanguras serves as graduate program director of Baylor's Doctor of Education Program in Learning and Organizational Change, and is a lecturer in Curriculum and Instruction in the School of Education.
As a researcher, Dr. Sanguras focuses on the development of skills like grit and coping among students, and uncovers ways that teachers and parents can support their children to succeed academically and professionally. She works closely with schools and parent groups to translate her research into practice, and she studies gifted and talented programs, uncovering ways to ensure equitable representation through a focus on methods of identifying those students.
Last year, Dr. Sanguras earned a National Association of Educational Progress Fellowship to further the field's understanding of academic achievement. And this is a great time to visit with her, as students of all ages are heading back to classes. There's always high hopes, a new year of opportunity, and exciting things ahead for our students. Dr. Sanguras, thanks so much for taking the time to visit with us and join us today on Baylor Connections.

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, sure. It's my pleasure to be here.

Derek Smith:
Well, it's wonderful to have you here and share more of your research that people can apply as their children perhaps go back to school or as they have family members.... Yeah, I think for everyone, the start of a new school year is filled with emotions, students, parents, and teachers. For you on this side as a higher education educator focused on this space, what are the emotions that back to school time stirs in you on this side of things?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, it's always an exciting time. My program is year round, so we are on a trimester schedule, but I still feel that excitement when I see the back to school supplies coming in at the grocery store, and just knowing that my own children are looking forward to some degree the start of the school year, dreading the end of the summer. But I know that it's an exciting time and there's a lot of hope for all that can be for the school year, especially for teachers as they think about how they want to schedule their lessons and plan all of the activities for their students.

Derek Smith:
Well, your work, your research, parents and teachers can apply it in a lot of ways, and we're going to talk about that. But before we do that, let's get to know you a little bit better. School of Education, you serve as graduate program director of the Doctor of Education Program in Learning and Organizational Change among other roles. So tell us about what brought you here to Baylor. How long have you been here? And what have you enjoyed about serving I think that unique age group in particular of our doctorate students?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, so I just received my email congratulating me on five years, and I have my points to spend-

Derek Smith:
Nice.

Laila Sanguras:
... to celebrate that, which is exciting. Yeah, I really love teaching, and that's initially what drew me to this position because I knew that it would be a heavy teaching expectation. And then as I learned more about the program and our students, I really just became very excited about all of the possibilities for online learning.
I think that Baylor University and the School of Ed specifically is really poised to help people rethink what online education can look like. I know that we were all thrust into that world because of COVID, but then as we have emerged out of that, I think we learned a lot about what works and also just ways that we can build community within online spaces.
Because as we know, that high touch sense of community is why everyone loves Baylor. Students, faculty, staff, we love being a part of the Baylor family. We took it on as a challenge to think about, "How could we take that and create that sense of family and community in the online space?" I think we've done it exceptionally well. We still always have a lot to learn and can improve, but I think that has enabled our students to go out into their fields and really rethink how they deliver professional development and learning opportunities for the people that they work with.

Derek Smith:
The students that you work with, it could be all over the country, but they're Baylor Bears through and through. And they're at a unique point in their lives too in a lot of cases. Who are your students? And by that I guess I mean, what are some examples of points in their career or things they're doing that you have that opportunity to sow into immediately as you teach them?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, we have a wide range of students who are incredibly diverse, and they are diverse in every way that you could imagine. So one of the things that we really enjoy about the students in our program is that they come to us from a range of industries. So initially it's an EdD, it's a doctorate of education. We thought that this would attract people who work within the field of education, and it certainly does. We have a large group. Approximately half of our students come from an education background and work in education, but then we also have students who come to us from the military, from healthcare, from nonprofit, human resources.
It really is incredible because we're talking about these ideas about how do people learn, specifically how do adults learn, because adults learn very differently from children. And so it's that difference between pedagogy and andragogy. And then also our students come in and are able to talk about and have these discussions about learning and organizational change, but from completely different experiences. And then the application of what they're learning is also very different.
So we have really rich conversations in our live sessions and really great breakout rooms and just opportunities to learn from other people who come from these different backgrounds and have these different experiences. I think it's what makes teaching in this program very rewarding and then it also creates a very rich environment for our students.

Derek Smith:
For you, when you're in education, you can go a lot of different directions. So Dr. Sanguras, what was it that drew you to this aspect of it where you're teaching professionals and students at this point in their lives?

Laila Sanguras:
I really have a passion for opening doors and providing opportunities for everyone. So I am a first-generation college student, any college beyond community college, and decided if I was going to go in, I was going to go all the way. And so I ended up earning my PhD. And really what mattered to me along the way was having people who could break down barriers, who could help me navigate a system that I was unfamiliar with, language, and learning those norms within academia that I just didn't know anything about.
And so I'm very passionate about doing that for our students as well. So making sure that whatever those barriers are, they are comfortable asking questions, but also that we provide opportunities for them to really grow as scholars, and really think critically about research and making data-informed decisions within their organizations, all of those sorts of things that really matter within their professional practice. We hear all the time about what a difference this program has made in the lives of our students, and I think it's because of that, because we're committed to helping them grow into that scholarly identity that they really want to take on and embrace.

Derek Smith:
This is Baylor Connections. We are visiting with Laila Sanguras. Dr. Sanguras serves as graduate program director of Baylor's EdD Program in Learning and Organizational Change, and is a lecturer in Curriculum and Instruction in the School of Education. So Dr. Sanguras, let's shift gears just a little bit and talk about your research and your work with parents and teachers at schools as they can apply this. So obviously we talked about at the beginning of the show, we're at the beginning of a school year, and parents are hoping to encourage their children towards another successful year. So when you think about academic success, what are some of the questions surrounding that that through your work you hope to help parents and teachers find answers or solutions to?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, I think that's a great question. And a lot of times I ask people to focus on the difference between productive and unproductive success and then productive and unproductive failure. First it's this idea that... We all know that unproductive success, it's the "everybody gets a trophy" kind of a mentality that is fun when you're 3, 4, 5 and you've dreamed of having a trophy, but by the time you are a teenager or an adult, you recognize that you're just getting something because you happen to show up enough days to get the trophy, and you don't necessarily have that sense of satisfaction that you worked hard for something, that you accomplished it.
And so I think it's that hard work that really is critical, that we need to make sure that we are focusing on and rewarding regardless of the outcome, which leads me to that idea of productive and unproductive failure. I define a successful endeavor, whether it's academic or personal, as one that you really had to work hard to achieve a goal, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you achieved the goal. So that would be the productive failure, that you were able to work towards something and learn some lessons along the way even if you didn't actually achieve what you set out to achieve. There's always growth in that learning and in that journey, and it's incredibly valuable.

Derek Smith:
You hear, I think, a lot of voices talk about things like this, whether it's about other generations, or you hear people talk about trophy culture, but you study this, you're talking to people on the ground. What should we know about where we are in this as we talk about teaching our children to thrive amidst productive failure or to channel that in ways that can help them succeed down the line? What are some ways that we're building that and what are some ways that... I say we, I guess society more broadly or educators more specifically can help encourage those things for a new generation?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, we have an incredible opportunity. Whether you're a parent and you're thinking about you have your children who are about to go off to elementary, middle, high school, or whether you're a teacher and you are teaching those students, we have this opportunity to walk alongside them as they set really scary "sets a fire in your belly" kind of a goal, and then to see how students navigate the challenges that they are going to encounter as they pursue that goal.
And the reason that I talk about that as just this great opportunity and this privilege is because we can be that what I call the hope dealer. We can be the person who instills hope in them along the way that, "While yes, you maybe were unsuccessful in making the team that you wanted to make or earning the grade that you wanted to make, let's focus on all of the things that you learned along the way. And so while you didn't exactly get to the point that you wanted to get to, or maybe you did, let's take a moment to really reflect on how you have grown and changed throughout this journey."
And the reason why it's so important that we do that while kids are with us, meaning in K-12 schools and living at home, is because they are going to go out into the world where it can be incredibly harsh and very difficult. We can be often bombarded by messages, whether they're true or not, that we are not good enough or not whatever enough. And while our children are at home with us, we can remind them that that is in fact not true, and we can provide them with the evidence to help them believe that. So what I mean by that is you build confidence by keeping the promises that you make to yourself and by being able to see and recognize the moments when you've faced a challenge and you persevered through it.
And a kid sometimes doesn't see that. They just see the outcome that it didn't work out or they hear that negative messaging from their friends or from society. But as parents, we can say, "Hey, remember when you did that thing? Remember how nervous you were to go into that new school or to try that new club? And remember that you did it, and you came out okay, and that you were proud of yourself for doing that?" So it's reminding them that, "You've faced a similar situation like this before, so you can replicate that and you can build upon that, and then you can achieve even bigger and scarier goals in your future." I think too often it's easy to get caught up in the negative, and it can be hard, especially for a young person, to be able to notice those things about themselves that are turning them into strong and resilient people.

Derek Smith:
So is that where parents can help their children develop that grit that you want them to have when they're out from under our immediate sphere of influence?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, absolutely. We want them to be able to face a challenge, and know that regardless of the outcome they're going to be okay on the other side. And the best way to do that is to overcome challenges, to build up that habit. You know, we have the Olympics going on. These incredible athletes, well, they didn't get there just because they happened to show up one day and be great. They had to fail over and over and over again and then keep getting up and keep doing it again.
I think I get very excited about the Olympics because of the direct relationship to grit, because Angela Duckworth talks about grit and defines it as that perfect combination of passion and perseverance. So the perseverance is often what we think about, the stick-to-itiveness, you don't give up, all of that, but passion is incredibly important. It is very hard to stick to something that is really difficult if you are not passionate about it. The passion is what keeps you going. And so that's that fire that I was talking about that you can feel when you're doing something that you really love.

Derek Smith:
Visiting with Dr. Laila Sanguras. And Dr. Sanguras, as we talk about this, I'm sure there's plenty of questions you've heard from parents over the years. Are there some common questions you receive that relate to this topic?

Laila Sanguras:
I think a lot of it is just related to fear of... As parents, we don't want to see our children fail or struggle or be sad. It is heartbreaking to see your child go through something difficult. And so I think some of the questions that I get involve, "How do you navigate that? How are you a comforting and compassionate parent while also holding your children accountable, and not swooping in to save the day for them, but letting them struggle a little bit so that they can build up that perseverance?"

Derek Smith:
Mm-hmm. You talk about that. You've done research and there's lessons parents can apply. Are there one or two things, simple things, to suggest? Are there questions that are helpful for parents to ask? We all have impulses. You said it's heartbreaking to see children when they're going through a hard time. Is there anything you would suggest that in the moment when those impulses to comfort or support in some way, what's the best way to channel that?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, I think it's important, like I said, to instill hope in our children, to help them recognize that their identity is not wrapped up in this thing that they maybe didn't accomplish or couldn't do. We see that a lot in gifted kids, especially if school has been easy for them all along the way, and then they get to that point where it's hard. They don't know how to cope, they don't know how to deal with it, and their identity is really rocked.
So you can imagine if you've always been sort of the smart kid or the, "Oh, he's the good one at math," or "She's the good one at science," and then all of a sudden they struggle, as they should, and then they don't know how to deal with that because they don't have those skills and that ability to navigate that. I think helping them see that, I think helping them dream big, scary things, and then recognizing what are the barriers that they're going to face along the way, and then, "How are we going to navigate those barriers?"
I also think it's incredibly important... We want to make sure that it's developmentally appropriate, but it's important that our kids understand times that we have struggled as well. So the times where, and I think, "God, I don't want to go to work today. I really wish that I could just snooze through my whole day. My boss has really been on my case about this issue, or I'm having this conflict with a coworker." And just being open about that so that our kids understand that this is life, being able to navigate these situations. It's not something that they have to go through by themselves, and we're all facing challenges to some degree.
And then also thinking through and really vocalizing for our kids, "How did we overcome that?" So, "Sure, I wanted to take the day off. I wanted to call in sick, but I didn't because I knew that I had people counting on me. And then eventually I felt proud of myself that I showed up, I gave it my all at work, and we were able to accomplish whatever the task was." So kind of modeling that and talking through those feelings with our kids is really helpful.

Derek Smith:
Great thoughts as we visit with Dr. Laila Sanguras. Dr. Sanguras, as we head into the final few minutes of the program, I'm curious, we've talked about your research, where are some of the exciting places that that work is taking you, whether it's with parents, teachers, or otherwise?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, a big project I'm working on is not related to grit. I'm a methodologist. I love mixed methods research, and so I'm doing a systematic review with just thousands of articles and I have a whole research team of students and alumni from our program who are working with me on it. I find that kind of thing very exciting too. So definitely sort of a nerdier side, less applicable than grit, but still a lot of fun.

Derek Smith:
Varied projects across the spectrum in education, research wise.

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah.

Derek Smith:
When you look ahead, it's a new school year coming up in the School of Ed as well. What are you most excited to see this year as you get to work with this next group of students and colleagues and continue to find ways to build that online community for the students you serve?

Laila Sanguras:
Yeah, it's always so exciting. We have commencement coming up next week, a brand-new hooding ceremony for our students that we are thrilled about. I think really just thinking through opportunities and ways that we can bring the Baylor community into online virtual spaces, connecting students with... Baylor is doing a lot around civil discourse which is very timely and very interesting. And so with the David Brooks talk and thinking through ways that we can engage our online students from around the world into those Baylor conversations, I think that's another area that I'm very excited about.

Derek Smith:
A lot of great things coming up. Dr. Sanguras, I want to say thank you to you for your time today. Thanks for joining us, sharing insights that parents can apply. We'll look forward to seeing all the great things coming out of the School of Ed, whether it's graduate, undergraduate, or otherwise in the year ahead.

Laila Sanguras:
Absolutely. Yeah, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you.

Derek Smith:
Great to have you with us. Dr. Laila Sanguras, graduate program director of Baylor's Doctorate of Education Program in Learning and Organizational Change and lecturer in Curriculum and Instruction, our guest today on Baylor Connections. I'm Derek Smith. You can hear this and other programs online at baylor.edu/connections, and you can subscribe to the program on iTunes. Thanks for joining us here on Baylor Connections.