Julie Anne Sweet

Transcript

Derek Smith:
Hello and welcome to Baylor Connections, conversation series with the people shaping our future. Each week we go in depth with Baylor leaders to professors and more, discussing important topics in higher education, research, and student life. I'm Derek Smith, and today we are talking history with Dr. Julie Anne Sweet. Dr. Sweet serves as Professor of History and Director of Military studies at Baylor, an expert on colonial and revolutionary America and military history. Sweet has earned numerous awards for classroom teaching and mentorship, including the 2022 Elizabeth Vardaman Faculty Award for Excellence in Mentoring Undergraduates. Known for delivering a lecture to her students in revolutionary period military gear, Sweet's lecture, the American Military and the Revolutionary War was featured on C-SPAN in 2019, and a lot of great lectures. That's just one that have been a part of what they've shown. And we're excited to dive into your work today as we head into the 4th of July here in 2024. Dr. Sweet, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

Julie Anne Sweet:
Well, good day to you, sir.

Derek Smith:
Well, it's good to have you here. And it's interesting, I know we're still a couple of years away from the big one, but we're approaching a big anniversary. A 2026 is going to be the 250th anniversary since 1776, and many of the historical moments leading up to that revolution are actually hitting that mark now or will be in the months ahead. I know this is your life no matter of the year, but I'm curious, do these anniversaries provide an additional sense of anticipation for you?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Absolutely. We've been hosting several reenactments based on the different 250th anniversaries that have come up, and we've got several more to come, so it's really an excellent chance to really hook students into history.

Derek Smith:
And I imagine as we think about media and news and we're going to see a lot of that as well, there might be some opportunities for you to speak into it.

Julie Anne Sweet:
Exactly. I certainly hope so.

Derek Smith:
For you, why Colonial and Revolutionary America? As you honed in your scholarly interests, what led you into that area?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Well, honestly, I started out as a Civil War buff, and so I was doing that for quite some time. And then my second real job outside after I graduated from Notre Dame as an undergrad, I was a US park ranger at Colonial National Historical Park. That's when the colonial bug bit me, colonial encompasses both Jamestown and Yorktown. That's when I went back to the 18th century and then it was all downhill from there.

Derek Smith:
What was it about that that captured you?

Julie Anne Sweet:
It was mostly the stories and also just it was being back in Virginia and there were some good tales that needed to be told, and I just really enjoyed it.

Derek Smith:
Now I have a quote. We're going to talk about your work. We're going to talk about your teaching styles and engaging students, but I'm curious, so at Notre Dame, you were a double major, right, in history and theater. So how do those two things intersect for you?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Well, the theater aspect of things was technical theater, so I was the backstage kid that did all the sets, props, lights, costumes, which whenever I say that my students are like, "Now it all makes sense," the way that I approach teaching because I'm the professor that brings stuff to class, everybody knows that. And so really the two go hand in hand, they're intertwined. My mentor, Father Kirby, once told me that teaching is theater, and he's absolutely right. It's just how you go about it is your own personal style.

Derek Smith:
Well, we're going to talk about the attire that you bring to class here in a little bit, but I'm curious, artifacts, historical artifacts, do you have some favorites? If we were to look around your office or where you store things, what are some of the things we might find?

Julie Anne Sweet:
I know the signature item that I am known for is my flintlock musket that I bring to class, both for the military history classes, American Revolution, pretty much every class, and it's a replica, but it is period appropriate. I always tell my students that technology dictates tactics, and so they need to understand the weapon that you're working with in order to understand why they fought the way they did. People often watch historical movies and they're all in straight lines, and they think that's just the stupidest thing they've ever seen.
But then once the students have seen the weapon and sometimes they come up and hold it, I let them try it, then they understand, "Oh, I get it," that the candle gets lit as we say in Colonial, you say the light bulb goes off and they realize like, "Oh, this is really different." And that's one of the reasons why I do bring those artifacts to class is because it is one of the few ways that I can still connect to students. It's not tied to technology. It's still that stuff that they can then say, "Oh, this is how this works, now I understand why they did what they did."

Derek Smith:
So you've got the musket, are there any other things we should know about?

Julie Anne Sweet:
The sneaky item I always bring in my tomahawk, but then I explain to them, well, it's actually a ceremonial piece that is a tomahawk. Yes. But the blade of it, the end of it is actually a pipe, and then the shaft is hollowed out, so it actually acts as a peace pipe as well as a tomahawk. So that way it shows that yes, you have both war and peace that you're actually, and something I always tell my students to remember is that you don't go into war lightly. Everybody likes those. They're the most exciting parts of history, but nevertheless, it's a very serious matter that I need them to take very seriously. And so we always think peace first, and that's how when you see this item, it's like, you automatically think war. But no, actually there's more to it than that. And that's the way all history events are. There's always more to it than that.

Derek Smith:
Well, and how do you help them consider that, because certainly it's easy to elevate the heroism of the Union Army at Gettysburg or of those who fought to start the country, to found the country in 1776. So how do you try to help them think through that holistically?

Julie Anne Sweet:
One of the fun words that historians have made up is problematize. And that's exactly what we do, is that we say, all right, well, here's the traditional storyline, but we need to dive deeper than that and see like, well, what about the loyalists in the American Revolution? What about the women or the African slaves or the indigenous people? It's so much more complicated than that. And I have a whole course that's just American Revolution Constitution where we unpack all these different facets, and it's not even sides. That's why I like to use the word facets because it's so complicated. And then at the end, I always say, "Well, what's the most surprising thing you learned?" And it's like, wow, we barely got by the skin of our teeth and thanks for the French, that sort of thing that it's just... Then they realize that I keep telling them, go back to the documents, go to the original sources. Don't take anything for granted that a historian tells you. Just because they wrote a book doesn't mean they got it right.

Derek Smith:
Visiting with Dr. Julie Anne Sweet here on Baylor Connections and Dr. Sweet, artifacts are one part of making history come alive and attire is, is as well. But to you, what is it that is so powerful about engaging students with history and making it come alive for them?

Julie Anne Sweet:
That's the real challenge, especially nowadays. There's a couple hurdles that I always need to jump, especially with non-history majors. When they get history in before I see them, it's usually gauge. It's headed towards the standardized test. They just need to learn facts, names, dates, pick the right A, B, C, D on multiple choice, and then they're done. And that's where I really like to engage them in the stories and make it really personal. A lot of the extra literature that I assign are personal narratives from people who were actually living at that time period, whether it's a housewife in colonial times or it's a revolutionary soldier, or it's an indigenous person who has to endure the Trail of Tears or any number of folks.
And students always say like, "Wow, now I can connect to that. I can understand that," because when it really comes down to it, we're all human. We all have those same basic needs, basic concerns, and then it's just what's different is the time period, what you're able to do, the options you have available to you. That's when you really understand like, "Oh, this is how the history side of works things." But they always have to remember that it's the human aspect that really makes it magical.

Derek Smith:
Now, obviously using these first person sources, I mean, they tell their story perhaps better than anyone, but I'm curious, what have you learned about telling a good story in a way that makes the colonial time period connect to students who grew up with iPhones and tablets?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Colonial is extremely difficult just because before the American Revolution, there's not a whole lot that happens. There's not a whole lot of people making history. So you're right, the documents are difficult to find. Moreover, the documents are difficult to read because colonial English is very different from the 21st century texting that folks are used to nowadays. But once we take it apart in small pieces, and I really do try to pick people who are say their same age as my students or that come from similar circumstances or even from the same locale or whatnot, just anything that they might have in common. And that's what I'm really pushing is for students to realize, sure, these people live 200 years ago, but honestly, we really do still have things in common. Soldiers, no matter what era, will always complain about the chow and those sorts of things just make that whole universal human experience that is history.

Derek Smith:
You mentioned non-majors versus majors. What do you like best about teaching non-majors? What opportunities are there and what do you like best about teaching your own history majors?

Julie Anne Sweet:
The non-majors are exciting because they don't come in with any specific, I don't want to call it agenda, but any specific storyline or something that they're particularly hooked into, interested in, whatnot. It's kind of like a blank slate almost. And so that way they're so open to all these different ideas and whatnot. So it is fun to just... And I always assure them like, "Look, I know you're not a major, so we're going to approach this like you're not a major." It's kind like, I'm not throwing differential equations at you, or something crazy like that. But with the majors, then you do have that shorter learning curve in terms of the history, in terms of the facts, names, dates, also in terms of just the documents themselves. And so that's when they really kind of deep dive into like, "Oh, this is where those facets that I was mentioning earlier. That's where these things really come into play," and they really do. They're hungry for it. They get really excited about it, and I do too because then we just all kind of nerd out and have a good time.

Derek Smith:
This is Baylor Connections. We are visiting with Dr. Julie Anne Sweet, Professor of History and Director of Military Studies. And let's talk about some of your famous lectures and the attire. Of course, it got the attention of C-SPAN. So when did incorporating the attire into your lectures here at Baylor begin for you?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Honestly, it started from the very beginning. So when I was working on my master's degree at Richmond, I had a summer job at Colonial Williamsburg. I was what they call a historical interpreter, and those are the people that are in period dress that are doing the chores, the activities that they did in 1770s. And so I realized then that that's when audiences really again, kind of get that hook, get that interest in that, and I figured, "Well, heck, I can bring that to the classroom and see how it goes." And I got to admit, I was pretty nervous at first how this was going to play among 18 year olds if they were just going to think I was weird, which they still do, but I'm okay with that.

Derek Smith:
They're having fun with it, right?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Exactly. But then once I did, again, it's just I like to stand up there and say like, all right, think about what I can physically do when I'm wearing two layers of petticoats that drag on the floor or that I'm wearing three layers of wool and I'm going to be sleeping outside if I'm a soldier. And so they do really kind of, they're interested in it, and they'll ask the silly questions about, well, kind of technicality sort of stuff. But it really does, it helps me as a historian, remember also these are the people that I'm representing to the future of America. But it also, again, is that extra hook that students can bring them back into the past as well.

Derek Smith:
If people look you up on Google, they can see pictures. But could you describe for us here what some of the attire that you bring to class that your students get to see?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Sure. So my most famous is the continental soldier from the American Revolution, which is the red, white, and blue with the britches and the stockings and the three corner hat and all the accoutrements that go with that. And it is the most colorful. So that does seem to be the most popular one. But I also always counter that with my militia outfit, which is kind of your more average back woodsman sorts of look. That's what we call a hunting shirt or a hunting frock. I like to say it's 18th century cami, but it's very plain, very rustic, and just like hunting garb that you would wear even today, I suppose. And that's the second group of soldiers that we never really hear about as far as the American Revolution. You always think about the Army and George and the boys as I like to call them, but there is a whole nother group that's out there doing more partisan rating that's important.
And so again, that just kind of makes them realize like, there's different forces in play here, which is important to realize. When I do colonial women, this one is particularly difficult for me as a woman who's got so many opportunities now and had very limited ones back then. But again, the women will look at me wearing literally three layers of long linen skirts and the big straw hat and go, "How in the world did they get anything done with all those clothes on?" And then I turn it on them and say like, "And who made these clothes?" And then they realize, "Oh, that's what I got to do." Yes, you aspire to be a good housewife, for instance. And so it also, especially I do dress as the colonial woman, reminds me that you need to realize this is the time period you're portraying and makes me do the things that I can do in those clothes and be true to the story.

Derek Smith:
And that work attracted the attention of C-SPAN on 2019 we talked about, but numerous lectures though. What was the response like to that when you got that attention on C-SPAN?

Julie Anne Sweet:
It was overwhelming. Really did not expect that at all. It was first aired in spring of 2019, and I knew it was coming, and suddenly I was literally flooded with emails from all over the country. And then I did get a few actual letters and cards for those older folks that are not technologically savvy, but the emails came from all sorts of different people from some mother that was thanking me because she actually watched it with her children. And it was the first time she could have a conversation with her teenage boy who doesn't talk to her anymore.
I was completely moved by that, but then it was school teachers that are like, "I never thought about doing it this way. Oh, what a great idea." So then they actually, C-SPAN would reran it. I lost track about nine times. They don't tell me. So I always find out when the emails start rolling in, and it does really happen. I mean, seriously, 20 to 30 emails each time they air it, and most people are, they're intrigued. They ask additional questions. Lots of thank-yous, only gotten a few haters, but those are the, I mean, I can count like three perhaps, but you know how that goes.

Derek Smith:
Can't please everyone.

Julie Anne Sweet:
Exactly.

Derek Smith:
Visiting with Dr. Julie Anne Sweet and Dr. Sweet is, as we head into the final few minutes in the program, want to transition a bit, we're approaching Independence Day, and of course, within two years now, the 250th anniversary of America's founding. So let's pick your brain on a few topics. Maybe there's some people or some moments that people might want to look at a little further that they haven't before. So I'm curious, is there, for you in Colonial America or Revolutionary America, is there a meaningful figure from the period that you find to be underappreciated or underrecognized?

Julie Anne Sweet:
The guy I always mention is George, my buddy, George Washington. And I know, okay, well, that's overdone. We knew that was coming. But honestly, I always say he really deserves his own day and instead of being lumped in with all the other presidents, and he honestly does. I mean, there's so much that he did so innovative as far as military tactics, as far as just government and politics. There's so many choices that he made that were really important, that really set our country on the path that it is today that honestly, he had no idea. I always like to say the founding fathers were flying by the seat of their britches. Because they really were making it up as they went along. And again, I think he gets overlooked because everybody thinks, "Oh yeah, George Washington, we all know him," but really, you do need to do the deep dive into like, wow.
I mean, he started out when he was 21 out in Western Pennsylvania and then ends up and pass away until 1799. That's a lot of history. And he took part in a lot of different events. And so just looking at his leadership on the battlefield or his politics or his home life or there's just so many different facets that people need to realize. I mean, he deserves to be recognized for the great man that he was, but he's still a man. And that's the important thing that folks need to realize that he too is a complicated guy and you need to dive a little deeper and learn a little bit more about him.

Derek Smith:
So obviously a big name. Are there any stories that maybe weren't even particularly meaningful to the overall founding of the country, but you're just like, "Man, I love telling people this or seeing people discover this"?

Julie Anne Sweet:
One of my favorite guys, and I assign him in every class literally that comes up, his name is Joseph Plum Martin, and he wrote his memoirs, Narratives of a Revolutionary Soldier, that could be your homework, if you will, is to find it and read it. And I guess 30, 40 years after he served, he wrote down his adventures when he was a continental soldier. And that's literally what it is, is his adventures is he takes part in some of the major battles. He's there for the battle in New York and all the different things that happened there. He's at Yorktown, so he's in the right places at the right time, but it's all the backstory. He's one of the guys and he's the same age as my students.
So he's doing goofy things behind the scenes and he's stealing food and he's checking out the girls. And it really does humanize those soldiers. And those two are ones that, yes, they do deserve our honor, our respect, but we do also need to realize that they're human too. And so they do cut up. They do, but they also, he gets injured. He deals with illnesses, and he too complains that there's no food, soldiers, chow, nuff said.

Derek Smith:
Joseph Plum Martin?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Yes.

Derek Smith:
Joseph Plum Martin. Besides maybe the obvious, the founding of a nation, why do you think the events surrounding our founding remains so fascinating, so relevant?

Julie Anne Sweet:
When you look at certain events that took place leading up to the American Revolution, this is another one where people just kind of assume it was like a domino effect. The Boston Massacre led to the Tea Act, which led to the Tea Party, which led to, et cetera, et cetera. And it really wasn't, there was so many contingencies. There were so many chance moments. The Boston Tea Party's a great example that it was like one event, one night, a couple hours where a bunch of guys went and threw 342 chest of tea in the harbor and didn't even do a very good job at it. But nevertheless, it was that spark that really lit things, got things going, and it's just important they help us, these anniversaries, help us remember where we've come from, and also realize that we can't take it for granted.
It was real touch and go the whole time. It really was a risk, a chance that they took back in the 1770s to do what they did, and nobody really knew how it was going to turn out. And that's another thing I keep stressing to students is that, yeah, you know how the story ends, but back in 1777, they didn't have a clue and their lives, their honor, everything was on the line there. And so we just need to realize and appreciate that, and these anniversaries give us the chance to do that.

Derek Smith:
Well, Dr. Sweet, we're about out of time, but as we look ahead towards 250 years in 2026, what's on the agenda for you? Are there some things we can be looking forward to?

Julie Anne Sweet:
Well, I'm hoping, as I hinted at the beginning of the program, we've done some reenactments of the past of some of these 250th anniversaries. There's several more 250th anniversaries coming up. I don't want to give away too much. But we're in the planning stages of several things for say 25, 26, 27. So be on the lookout.

Derek Smith:
We'll be on the lookout, for sure. Dr. Sweet, appreciate you taking the time to share with us and share your enthusiasm with us and some topics we can delve into a little further. Thank you so much for your time, and thanks for joining us on the program.

Julie Anne Sweet:
Well, thank you, sir.

Derek Smith:
Dr. Julie Anne Sweet, Professor of History and Director of Military Studies, our guest today on Baylor Connections. I'm Derek Smith. Reminder, you can hear this and other programs online at baylor.edu/connections, and you can subscribe to the program on iTunes. Thanks for joining us here on Baylor Connections.