Mona Choucair and Anne Jeffrey

Transcript

DEREK SMITH:

Hello and welcome to Baylor Connections, a conversation series with the people shaping our future. Each week we go in depth with Baylor leaders, professors and more discussing important topics in research, higher education and student life. I'm Derek Smith and our guests today are Dr. Mona Choucair and Dr. Anne Jefferey. Dr Choucair serves as senior lecture in Baylor University's English Department and as Faculty in Residence at South Russell Hall, an alum who earned her BA and PhD at Baylor, Dr. Chouchair's teaching interests are in American literature with an emphasis on contemporary women writers. She enjoys a dual teaching appointment in the Baylor education department where she works with student teacher candidates. Later on on the program we will visit with Dr Anne Jeffery, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Baylor to talk about how she's working with her philosophy students to discuss ethical ramifications of COVID-19, but first today we are visiting with Dr. Mona Choucair and we appreciate it very much for your time today. Thanks so much for joining us.

MONA CHOUCAIR:

Thank you for having me.

DEREK SMITH:

Well, it's great to have you here and to talk to you about you have a lot of insight as both a professor and a faculty in a resident's position. What's campus... I think a lot of people are probably wondering this, what's campus looking like for you these days as well as anyone else you're working with there on campus right now?

MONA CHOUCAIR:

Well, thank you for asking. I have the luxury of living right across from Truett Seminary and I look out the kitchen window and I can see beautiful roses and so forth, but no students.

DEREK SMITH:

Yeah.

MONA CHOUCAIR:

It is somewhat deserted. Someone asked me, "Are you sad?" And I said, "Yes." Perhaps bereft is the word. I think we're all grieving because that's why we're here, we're passionate about education and students and so with the students gone it is somewhat empty, somewhat sad, but we're going forward. We expect them to do so, so we are marching forward.

DEREK SMITH:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, certainly with Zoom and so many of the online resources, there are plenty of opportunities that for a lot of people are learning together right now. I'm curious for you, whether it's in the classroom with your students, the virtual classroom, if you will, or your South Russel students. How do you feel that your role in terms of supporting them has grown beyond the basics recently?

MONA CHOUCAIR:

Well, this is my sixth year in this position, I'm privileged to be a faculty in residence at South Russell Impact LLC. And I have to tell you, Derek, I'm a better teacher because living among the students, you realize what they go through on a day to day basis. Yes, we all went to college at one point, but I think we forget the different stressors in their lives. And so I'm not just a teacher, I'm a facilitator and I'm lovingly called Mama Mona. I love that term of endearment very much. I'm an encourager. I'm a friend and I walk alongside them in their day to day lives. It's made me, I think a better teacher, one who's more aware of the students that walk in and out of those classrooms.

DEREK SMITH:

That's great. We are visiting on Baylor connections with Dr. Ramona Choucair Senior Lecturer in Baylor's English Department and faculty and residents at South Russell Hall. And what have you learned about the community at South Russel during the quote, unquote normal times that you're finding maybe is most applicable now with everyone at remote locations?

MONA CHOUCAIR:

Well another good question. I tell you, we are a family and we need each other. We talk about that and please know that I am fortunate to have so many wonderful people from campus life who really run the show. They make our jobs so much easier. We have incredible hall director and chaplain and program director and community leaders and we all together are a family. Since we have that connectedness, that's something that hopefully the students know transfers over whether we're together physically or not. I'm fielding several emails and a few phone calls from residents and they say they really miss campus and they miss each other. And I'll tell you, we are connected and they say this generation is the most connected via technology. But I would contend the opposite. I would contend that the hug that you get as you're walking down the hall from your hallmates, the conversations you have in person with your roommate, perhaps the conversation you have with the professor right after class. Things like that matter, that connectedness face to face. I think we are a community and I know we will weather this storm and I think we're all realizing how important the Baylor family is. And president Linda Livingstone set a wonderful tone by telling the students that we care about them, we're in this together, they are not alone. We've had wonderful outreach programs to the students so I think they feel loved and they just realize that connectedness takes on many forms, so we're very fortunate at Baylor.

DEREK SMITH:

A lot of those things will probably appreciate all the more once they are available to us. Some great thoughts there as we visit with Dr. Mona Choucair, and are there... As you talk to students, I mean, are there some questions or concerns that are most prevalent that you've heard?

MONA CHOUCAIR:

Oh definitely, they are missing their friends, they're missing their Baylor family, they're missing campus. They tell me they're overwhelmed. I'm sure as many professors do, we reserve a moment or two at the beginning or the end of our Zoom sessions, our canvas chats to just talk about how they're doing. I think we have to remember that students come from various backgrounds and I had one tell me that she's in charge of teaching her five younger siblings and keeping up her own work.

DEREK SMITH:

Wow.

MONA CHOUCAIR:

And have students who have lost jobs and they need those jobs desperately. And we have students who of course are missing the fun of the senior year and they have siblings who are missing the fun of their senior year in high school. What I've heard over and over really is beautiful. They miss campus, they miss their professors, they miss their friends, they miss the Baylor family.

DEREK SMITH:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

MONA CHOUCAIR:

And I think that's really beautiful. I think also their concerns are about learning. As an educator I realize students don't learn in the same way. They learn in various ways. The platforms that we are providing are fantastic, but we have to remember some students won't raise their concerns where everyone can hear them. We really have to watch for those students that aren't speaking up on Zoom and you know that may have struggled prior to this. I think student concerns come out in that way. How am I doing in the course? And do you think I can make it through the course? And so forth.

DEREK SMITH:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). What most impresses you, whether it's in normal times or right now that most impresses you about the Baylor student body from I think that really unique vantage point you have?

MONA CHOUCAIR:

That's such a good question. They are resilient, they are funny. I think they have this love for Baylor, whether they're a legacy of Baylor, whether our new to our campus, they know that they are loved and that someone has reached out to them in a way that made them feel special. I think they rely on that. And I know professors across campus are reaching out and saying, "You know what? We still care. You still have to do the work here and we're here to support you." I think they're resilient. I think they feel noticed. I think they feel special. And so yes, that's my hope anyway, that's what I'm hearing.

DEREK SMITH:

Well, I'm visiting with Dr. Mona Choucair, Senior Lecturer of English and Faculty in Residence at South Russel Hall and Doctor Choucair, my final question for you, you're a Baylor alum as well as now a professor, faculty in residents. And I'm curious if there's any aspects of this that stand out to you as being a particularly meaningful role for Baylor or for Christian higher education institutions in general to play during this unique time?

MONA CHOUCAIR:

That's a wonderful question. I'm so proud to be a part of Baylor and I'm so proud that my parents were able to send me and my siblings here. And I'll tell you, I think it's what we're all facing in education right now. We're valuing education more and more as we see people face it in homeschooling situations. And I'm so thankful that people are realizing our teachers really need accolades. But get to your question... Back to your question, Baylor's a really special place and I think what I'll do is I'll share with you something that was outstanding to me in our Sunday school lesson. This last Sunday, we were looking at Luke:12 and talking about how sometimes things right in front of us, we don't see until other things make us focus. For instance, I'm most proud of the fact that there are beautiful, beautiful people on this campus who really care. I think that that is obvious to our students. I think that for me as I walk around campus, it may be desolate that I'm starting to notice how beautiful it is. We take that for granted. I think Baylor in all that we have sent out to students, all the ways we've reached students through our course work and our different computer platforms and so forth. I think the bottom line is we care, and in Christian education, if are not changed by what has happened, then something's wrong. We have to [inaudible] and we have to stay strong. We have to maintain academic excellence, but we have to also do what Baylor does best, and that is care and love for our students.

DEREK SMITH:

Well, that's fantastic. Dr. Choucair, thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts today and for all you and your colleagues are doing for our students right now. Thank you so much.

MONA CHOUCAIR:

Well, thank you. There are many, many people across the campus who are doing beautiful things.

DEREK SMITH:

Dr. Mona Choucair, Senior Lecturer in Baylor's English Department and a Faculty in Residence at South Russel Hall with us today here on Baylor Connections. Shifting gears now here on Baylor Connections. We talked to Dr. Anne Jeffrey, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Baylor. A Baylor graduate, she returned to her alma mater as a faculty member last year. With classes moving online for the remainder of the semester due to COVID-19 many professors have had to adjust rapidly to the changing learning environment. Dr. Jeffrey is helping students walk through ethical issues raised by the public health crisis in her Contemporary Moral Problems in Bioethics class, engaging students through real world implications with pandemic as they generate ethical guidelines for policy makers and healthcare administrators. And she is visiting with us today.

DEREK SMITH:

Dr. Jeffrey, it's great to have you. Thanks so much for joining us.

ANNE JEFFREY:

Thank you for having me Derek.

DEREK SMITH:

Thank you. Well tell us a little bit about the goals and set up of your Contemporary Moral Problems in Bioethics class. Who is comprised in that class and how has COVID-19 shifted the ways you have to interact online?

ANNE JEFFREY:

Yeah, so the class has a variety of students, freshmen through seniors. We've got students who are pre-med, pre-law, majoring in biology, medical humanities, film, great texts for instance. So a lot of different students and the goals and set up of the class are basically to introduce students to bioethics by making them do it. Bioethics is pretty practical. A lot of folks who do bioethics are clinical emphasis, so they consult whether it's policymakers or they could consult in hospitals. So in the class there are 12 cases that they have to look at throughout the course of the semester. And I assign readings in philosophy and ethics that are related to ethical issues that arise in those cases. And the idea is that they learn how to think and reason through the cases. They engage in sort of cognitive empathy, trying to take on the perspective of different stakeholders in the cases and then use different ethical principles to think about what they ought to do in those cases or what different stakeholders ought to do in those cases. Some of the cases are fictional, some are realistic. So, since moving online due to COVID-19 we have started thinking about public health crises in a more realistic way instead of using science fiction cases. So I think that's just one thing to say there. And another way that things have shifted is that we really miss being present altogether.

DEREK SMITH:

Talking with Dr. Anne Jeffrey. And what are some examples of those ethical issues related to COVID-19 that are real world problems they can address?

ANNE JEFFREY:

Well, there are a lot of them. Originally we were actually slated to talk about organ transplants in mid-March and so we were going to read about justice and allocating scarce medical resources. So that's one of the issues that we are still talking about.

DEREK SMITH:

Oh wow.

ANNE JEFFREY:

So when COVID-19 hit the US and we went online, I swapped out an organ transplant case for a Coronavirus case. And some of the issues that they're talking about with this case are how to allocate resources like ventilators, hospital beds, masks. They're thinking about privacy rights of individuals who have Coronavirus and whether those privacy rights can be overridden in a pandemic situation. What might justify sharing of private health information? They're thinking about the moral responsibilities of medical practitioners, healthcare administrators, government officials, journalists, individuals. How much do those of us who are still employed and have surplus money owe to others? And where should we give it? So those are some of the questions they're thinking about.

DEREK SMITH:

Are there some that in particular you feel have really energized or engaged the students?

ANNE JEFFREY:

Oh yeah. So for the project that they are now doing, this optional project where they're generating ethical guidelines for policymakers and healthcare administrators that you mentioned, they are supposed to come up with recommendations about allocating resources and that question has definitely energized them and caused some debate. So they're also thinking about whether we should put our resources and energy into using unvalidated medical interventions on COVID patients or instead focus on developing and testing interventions and vaccines and clinical trials. So, that's something that we've been discussing that they're excited about. And the question about privacy rights and government intervention is also really interesting to them and whether the intervention should be taking place at the federal level or at the local level, how coordinated that should be. Those are all things that they're debating with each other and talking to me about.

DEREK SMITH:

Obviously you mentioned students in a number of different majors, some of whom could very well hold these roles down the line.

ANNE JEFFREY:

Right.

DEREK SMITH:

But how do you try to help them put on some of those different hats be it a policymaker or a healthcare practitioner? What are some of the ways that you can work together with your students for them to really get inside the head a little bit of that role?

ANNE JEFFREY:

Yeah, a lot of philosophy in general, but this class in particular is about practicing reasoning and cognitive empathy at once. So trying to figure out what it would be like to be in that situation and sometimes the best way to do that through story and narrative. So I'm posting a lot of op-eds from people in different roles and they're also going to be able to talk with consultants. So people with whom I have connections who are either in the healthcare administration world, or clinical ethicists, people who do environmental ethics consulting, or environmental public policy. So they're going to get to actually ask people in those roles what they're dealing with right now, what they think of the policy recommendations that the students are coming up with. So I think both reading from their perspective and then talking to these folks is going to help them think through those issues.

DEREK SMITH:

Talking with Dr. Anne Jeffrey, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Baylor. You mentioned they're putting some recommendations down and working in groups. In what forms are they going to put together again what they're learning in this class, or what those recommendations look like?

ANNE JEFFREY:

Yeah, so they are going to decide this week whether as a class they want to create a short video or a website or split into two groups and do both. So we will see. But goal is really to produce something that could be circulated and that they're proud enough of that they would share to family and friends, people in their local government, policymakers, and something that would actually be usable and thought-provoking.

DEREK SMITH:

Obviously as you're talking with students, it's a little bit different when you're online than it is when you're all in the same room together. What have you learned about facilitating engagement in e-learning over this last month or so?

ANNE JEFFREY:

I think one thing I've learned is it throws into relief how important physical presence is for building a community. And for philosophy especially. One of our main goals is to create intellectual friendship. So friendship that is based on pursuing the truth together. And so not being physically present with one another, it is definitely difficult if that's a main goal of what you're doing. But at the same time, I think the months that we did have together give us something to build on and I'm really inspired by the way that the students are still invested in each other and in the class and doing everything they can to meet together in person, in small groups, whether with me or not. We're using Microsoft Teams so they're able to create small groups and meet with each other when they're discussing these issues for this COVID-19 project. And I think that the other thing I'm learning about teaching online is that we're almost more connected continuously because they're able to post things and engage with each other, like a post that someone has made at any hour of the day. We're all in different time zones. Someone's in Portland, someone else's in New York. So, there's sort of the ability to engage at whatever hour of the day and therefore to be almost more continually engaged in the class and in the material.

DEREK SMITH:

And finally, Dr. Jeffrey, maybe for some of us who our philosophy classes were a while back, in closing, what do you hope students, when we think about philosophy experience particularly in your bioethics class but even and in general, what do you hope they take away from these experiences long after they've been here at Baylor?

ANNE JEFFREY:

I hope that they have learned how to respectfully and thoughtfully engage with each other on topics that are super charged and difficult and about which very reasonable, smart people disagree, even people of the same faith seriously disagree. And I hope that especially in doing this project, they are learning how to make progress towards consensus on those sorts of issues, how to be empathetic with others' points of view, and think about others' reasons for their differing views and even getting more articulate about their own reasons and being reflective and having a humility about the beliefs that they come to a problem with and being open to change their minds in light of the reasons that others view them.

DEREK SMITH:

Well, that's great. Well, Dr. Anne Jeffrey, I know it's a very busy time for everyone. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us here on the program today.

ANNE JEFFREY:

Thank you Derek, and thanks for what you're doing. I appreciate it.

DEREK SMITH:

Thank you. Dr. Anne Jeffery, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Baylor, our guest today on Baylor Connections. Thanks also to Dr. Mona Choucair, Senior Lecturer in Baylor's English Department and faculty-in-residence at South Russell Hall. I'm Derek Smith. A reminder, you can hear this and other programs online, baylor.edu/connections. Thanks for joining us here on Baylor Connections.